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Elementalist v. Mesmer

April 16, 2012 - 7:49pm -- Caedis

I know there is a predominance of Necro love here, but I wanted to get some opinions on whether Elementalist or the Mesmer will have more versitility in PvP/PvE. I have been looking over the trait and skill lists and can't decide if attunement swapping or illusion explosions plus conditions will be more versitile.

Scootermouse
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One thing

One thing I seem to notice about the classes is that while Mesmer is obviously a caster class, they seem to be a bit more into the martial arts of combat, whereas elementalist will be the go-to classic caster. 

I got this feeling looking over the kit of the Mesmer, they have some surprisingly visceral weapon choices for a caster, such as greatsword and pistols.  The combination of their magic trickery and martial combat seems like a caster/rogue hybrid almost.

Conversely, Necros seem to trade trickery for tankiness in their kits. I just felt like mentioning Necros.

Maybe looking at the two classes with this in mind wil help you decide which would better fit your playstyle.

Caedis
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Yea that's a good point. And

Yea that's a good point. And like with anything else GW2 related, it's really hard to get a feel for the professions until I actually get my hands on them. As for the elementalist, I'm assuming that you don't lose conditions/boons when you swap attuenments, right? Like if you throw on Frost Armor then swap to Fire, you keep you frost armor?

"He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire" --Winston Churchill

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The most daunting aspect of

The most daunting aspect of the Elementalist will be unlocking all those weapon skills (20 per weapon with all four attunements) and then becoming familiar enough with them to be effective in combat with both weapon and attunement switching.

Caedis
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Yea I agree. And then

Yea I agree. And then remembering which skills go with what attunement for what weapon. Since Elems cant weapon swap in combat, it would be rough to forget which spells you actually have in the heat of battle.

"He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire" --Winston Churchill

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Elementalists that 'know

Elementalists that 'know their stuff' are going to be frightening foes in PvP.

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I can't wait to get into the

I can't wait to get into the thick of the beta. I hope my rig can run it decently without dragging too much.

"He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire" --Winston Churchill

Caedis
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I can't wait to get into the

I can't wait to get into the thick of the beta. I hope my rig can run it decently without dragging too much.

"He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire" --Winston Churchill

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I tried both the Elementalist

I tried both the Elementalist and Mesmer. Elementalist is more your typical caster, They can do some amazing things if you take the time to really learn all their abilities. Mesmer felt more unique, and had some really cool abilities that just made you say awesome! Both were fun. versatility is hard to call. I think the Mesmer had a bit more, but both were fun.

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Love for Ele

I have always been partial to caster classes, so that may also color my opinion on this, but to me Ele seems more a pure caster cast, while Mesmer is more of a Hybrid between caster and melee.  They seem, to me, to have illusions and phantasms that can do some distance damage, but they also seem build for the melee weapons and to do close in damage dealing much better than Ele.

 

Not that Ele is incapable of it...there is a realy nice combo of Air skills, one called ride the lightning, that zooms you in close to do some nasty damage, and then the next skill, I forget its name, does a small bit of wind damage while pushing you back away, allowing you to pop in, do some damage and drop back away.

I'm sure Mesmer has something similar, I'm sure most of the classes do, I just really enjoy the Air attunement for Elementalists.  I do agree with the above about all the work to unlock 4 attunements for every weapon set, but actually, I think Ele's have a rather limited set of weapon sets compared to other classes, thus making up a bit for it.

Even so, I find a great diversity for the Ele's.  I didn't get a chance to play much of the Mesmer in the beta, but I never liked Mesmer in GW1.  In GW2 I find them rather fun.  If for no other reason than that in a heart beat you can have 5 of you facing your enemy.

 

Galen

Galen

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After getting some playtime,

After getting some playtime, I agree with Galen. I found the Mesmer to be quite fun and they had some nice long range and melee options. Learning how to play with your illusions is key to the class and, I think, for making them shine in PvE/PvP. I enjoyed the Elementalist a bit more, though, due to its complexity with the different attunements. I wasn't able to unlock all abilites with all attunements, but the one thing I had trouble with is timing the AoE cast times. The in-game enemies are pretty smart and would move out of my ground-targeted AoE unless they were up in my face. That is one thing that the mesmer has over the Ele, the ability to single target some strong DPS with multiple abilites. 

"He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire" --Winston Churchill

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Mesmers are masters of

Mesmers are masters of illusion.. Which kind of gives them an advantage of outlasting you in a 1v1 for cap point control. They simply can survive longer then an elementalist can in general. But once you learn how to spot the real mesmer from the clones, a good elementalist will be able to burst down a Mesmer.

 

So its kind of a toss. Depends on how good the player is controlling the class. There is no right or wrong answer.

*In a Structured PvP  sense that is.

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Ele V Mesmer

I don't really like the whole PvP thing, and tend not to do it, but to the above comments...I may have this wrong, but the illusions dispel quickly upon being hit, don't they?  If so, it would see all an Ele has to do is throw out an AoE and poof go the clones.

I may, however, be underestimating the clones durability.  If not, though, Ele's have LOTS!!! of AoE's...I don't think it would be too difficult to quickly dispel a bunch of clones.

 

Galen

Galen

Caedis
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Mesmer's have a couple

Mesmer's have a couple different types of illusions. Clones look more like duplicates...they have the caster's appearance and name plate but they have very low health . Phantasms have a more shimmery look, no nameplate, and higher health/damage. Generally clones = distraction, phantasms = damage. Both clones and phantasms can be exploded for the various effects. 

I think part of the Mesmer sticking point with me is that when you're doing PvE and just killing low level mobs, you don't get a whole lot of use out of the illusions. Once the target for which the illusions were summoned is dead, the illusions disappear. So if you're going through easier to kill enemies, you have to summon the illusion and then blow it up soon else it will be wasted. On large bosses and in PvP this is different, but I didn't get a chance to try the Mesmer in these situations.

"He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire" --Winston Churchill

Galen
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Boom goes the Dynamite

I can understand the frustration in that.  I read in the Wiki where it talks about "shattering" illusions being the main thing with the Mesmer, and yet I never did any shattering in the time I played the mesmer.

I suppose you could say that shattering is the Mesmer's version of the Ranger Pet, a supposed major part of the class, even a focus, yet one that doesn't get so much play.

So, looking at it that way, I'd like to ask the question I asked about Rangers.  If the Mesmer isn't really all about shattering....what is it all about?  Do those illusions have a life and purpose beyond just being mobile bombs?  If so, how well do they work for that purpose?  Are their traits to focus on making them better at being durable illusions?  Are their things other than their illusions at play here...like maybe chainskills and such?

 

Galen

Galen

Caedis
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I'd argue that a Mesmer IS

I'd argue that a Mesmer IS all about shattering their illusions. I think part of my view of the class came from not playing it properly (in a PvE perspective). Traits for the Mesmer focus more on increasing the effects of the illusion shatter, not so much on the illusion itself. Part of the issue is approaching the illusions as "pets." When you look over the Mesmer traits, it's much clearer that you're really supposed to be cycling through illusions and using the shatter conditions as the situations warrants. Mesmers produce illusions quickly (each weapon usually has a tleast 1 skill to produce an illusion) and are meant to blow them up quickly. I guess the next BWE I need to try to use illusions more like quickly disposable bombs and not so much like damage-dealing pets.

"He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire" --Winston Churchill

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Bombs away

Nice points Caedis.  The more I look at things, the more it seems the clues on how to actually use the different elements runs right back to the traits and attributes.

Hmm.  Perhaps ArenaNet should mention that? (Ducks all the junk being mentally thrown as him by anyone in ArenaNet).  :)

I think, actually, they have been trying to do that.  Just people like me keeps thinking, "No!  Its not about the Traits!  Its about this cool pet I have...its about his clone of mine....its about this cool gun turret I have!"  I think they may have given us all these nifty toys to play with and we, or at least me, being the greedy child I tend to be at times, forget that there is a reason behind them.  Then we complain cause they are broken, when we never even bothered to read the rule book on how to use them.

 

Then again it might just be me :)

 

 

Galen

Galen

DubokaMisao (not verified)
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this is how it should look in

this is how it should look in PvP between those two :

http://3bepob.deviantart.com/#/d50c2jx

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Your clones can be traited

Your clones can be traited for more survivability.  Also, if you look at some of the builds people have on YouTube, there are some nasty portal/invis/clone builds that allow them to confuse and kite players pretty well.  I believe Haelyn was telling me the other day that if you click on the clone or the real player..one of them has a mask symbol which gives them away (can't remember which).

However, with some of the builds I've mentioned, there is a lot of opportunity for the mesmer to pop invis, and portal and reappear, kite, portal and invis.  You can trait for clones to pop every time you dodge as well.

If played right, in the thick of battle, people will be hard put to keep up with you.

 

Edit:  IMO this class more than any other will suffer if you glass cannon approach it.

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