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Tournament Divides

November 8, 2012 - 4:34am -- Xerin
Guild Wars 2 Battle of Khylo

I love a sensationalist forum title.  I’m not sure how or why people feel the need to write them without facts or figures to back up their claims but this one in particular really caught my interest today. The thread starter declares GW2 is dying, a change of priorities is mandatory”. That’s quite the statement.

If you don’t want to read the entire forum post and the subsequent replies I’ve pasted the “Too Long, Didn’t Read” below.

TLDR: PvP is dying because of lacking content for aspiring new players and those in between the casual/hardcore area. A ladder/matchmaking needs to come as soon as possible to create a playfield that is enjoyable no matter how good you are at the game and helps you grow as a player.

First and foremost, is PvP really dying? Looking at the server lists, they are as busy as they ever were.  Secondly, tournaments (unpaid) appear instantly, suggesting there is a constant demand from budding teams.  Thirdly, paid tournaments only have around a 1 to 2 minute wait between matches, again showing high demand.

I do however understand some of the thread starter’s complaints (though the ladder system is in the works) as there is a difficulty for new teams or inexperienced players in actually standing a chance of winning.  I play as part of a tournament team and 99% of the matches we play, we win.  We win because we are individually skilled but also because we utilise voice chat, have played together for a period of time and have established tactics.  This leaves players who want to simply PUG a tournament at a distinct disadvantage.

At present those who queue individually for tournaments, or as a party less than 5, are placed into the same tournament pool as the pre-formed groups.   This poses its own set of problems as individuals with no group synergy or experience are at an immediate disadvantage.  That isn’t to suggest that PUG tournament groups always lose when playing with the big-boys, but they lose more than most- that I am sure of.

The simple solution and as rightly suggested by Pray is to split PUG tournament groups (treat it similarly to random arena) from pre-made.  The only problem this poses is the additional layer of tournament play may create significant queues for those in pre-mades and worse, paid tournaments.  

What are your thoughts on the current state of sPvP and tournament play? Is there a fix for the

p.s. ArenaNet, please get rid of 8vs8!

Yski
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"This leaves players who want to simply PUG a tournament at a distinct advantage."

I think it's supposed to be disadvantage? Surely the organized teams can't really be that bad? wink

 

I really should try some organized PvP at some point. All I've done is hot joins and most people there just aren't good at the game. It'd be fun to see if my minion master build is actually good or if practically everyone I've met during the 50 - 100 games or so I've played with it is terribad cheeky

Every single forum I've used to spread anti guardian propaganda has subsequently died out on me. Coincidence? I think not!

Lewis B
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Haha bloody hell, curse my fat fingers! Disadvantage!

I would lean towards the fact your minion master build isn't good, I've never met a good one in tournament PvP, they get absolutely demolished.

As for participating, there are tons of players looking for fixed teams, why not apply to one?:)

chaosgyro
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I would tend to think that yet another pvp-type split would be pushing it.  Already the division between PUGs and more organized teams is supposed to even out between unpaid and paid tournaments respectively.  Is that simply not happening?  (I don't really spvp so I wouldn't know) If it's not then I would think the first solution should be looking at the cost for paid tournaments rather than add in more clutter.

P.S. Once the next rung past paid tournaments comes in - the real esport stuff - I'm sure we'll see the really skilled groups head that way like their tails are on fire.

Lewis B
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I probably stand somewhere in the middle. An additional layer of tournament play runs a real risk of diluting the other two further.  And I’d suspect many would actually play the PUG version.  However, even a PUG version isn’t fault free as a pre-made party of 4 would still be able to enter the PUG tournament and just pick up 1 random player.  In this circumstance they would still have a huge advantage.

So really, I guess we need to ask ours: “What is the point?”.  There are plenty of players and small groups who are seeking tournament members.  Maybe its time people acknowledge that tournament’s just aren’t for 5 random players, versus 5 random players.  If you want to do that, play hot join.

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The problem with hotjoin is really two fold at the moment:

1. It's 8v8 which is absolutely horrible. It takes away any sense of tactics (the minute sense you can find in PuGs) and makes a lot of fights into big brawl fests.

2. There doesn't seem to be any kind of matchmaking, as an average player you could be send out or face a group way below/above your skill level. This means a good portion of the hot join matches result into being either totally obliterated or winning games whilst watching some TV while you AFK on one of the points (obviously I don't do this cheeky)

I would very much welcome either a better system for random tournaments; or simply an overhaul of the hot join system.

One could of course join a solid tournament, but my team can only get together a few times a week (especially with 3 of us running shift work)

zalamael
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I think Arenanet shot themselves in the foot when they added the Skirmisher bonus.  Before that, random players in hot join were learning to fight on the points, as doing so yielded far more points.  And more points = more Glory.  The good players were walking away with 200+ points per match, whereas the bad ones were walking away with 50.  This is how it should have stayed.

After the Skirmisher bonus was added though, the incentive to fight on the points vanished, and hot joined turned into an 8v8 zerg, which it just can't do very well given the stats of the PvP items.  I've even watched players run past undefended points without even stopping to neutralise them, because they are far more interested in zerging.

These players will probably never evolve past that playstyle unless the devs force them to.  Rewarding stupidity only encourages it, and this is why there is such a disparity between what an organised team and a pug are capable of in tPvP.

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